tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post1887695499750267348..comments2024-03-25T02:16:16.247-07:00Comments on Christ the Tao: Aslan Stumbles. Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-65362259428548752292015-08-23T14:14:03.125-07:002015-08-23T14:14:03.125-07:00The comment about the Sea of Galilee bothered me, ...The comment about the Sea of Galilee bothered me, so I looked it up, via the Index. I found the passage on p. 95, but I found a reference to "cool air," nothing about salt air. I suppose it was a typo or misprint, but anyway, but the correction renders your comments about mistaking the geography and about salt air not being good for the plants rather nugatory.<br /><br />If I were an unfriendly critic, I am sure I could expand on this at some length, using different assumptions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07490720312025629930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-26151406263757682312013-12-21T18:36:42.565-08:002013-12-21T18:36:42.565-08:00Reza Aslan is just another one of the many people ...Reza Aslan is just another one of the many people throughout history who have shaped Jesus into an idol of their own invention through the misinterpretation/distortion of God's word.<br /><br />Many of his arguments, which are also used by assorted antichristian propagandists and atheists etc. and which are nothing new or original, have been thoroughly dealt with by the church fathers, scholars and reformers of the past, who, through the correct reading, interpretation and understanding of the meaning of the Scriptures as intended by their Author, the Holy Spirit, have already destroyed these arguments hundreds of years ago (for more information go to creation.com) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-62394619336299708222013-09-11T14:33:43.429-07:002013-09-11T14:33:43.429-07:00Thanks, Brigitte. Also thanks for linking this ar...Thanks, Brigitte. Also thanks for linking this article (also JP Holding and others who did the same.) David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-22852510428025516572013-08-18T19:06:04.309-07:002013-08-18T19:06:04.309-07:00Very good. Thank you very much for sending me her...Very good. Thank you very much for sending me here and for the thorough and even-handed review. I posted a one star review on Amazon the other day. I just find it so very tragic that most of the culture knows so little about the Bible, history, theology and Christian history, that this kind of recasting will have some effect. Brigittehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259491144770243688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-17479250971901039652013-08-15T01:45:31.500-07:002013-08-15T01:45:31.500-07:00I post here the comment which was ill placed.
Hi...I post here the comment which was ill placed.<br /><br /><br />Hi David, <br /><br />your criticism of Aslan's book was quite interesting, but it does shows you've also a conservative bias. <br /><br />How do you know, for example, that the sayings "no one has ever done that" were not added by the Gospel writers or an editor?<br /><br /><br />There are many not-implausible, contradictory theories about Jesus of Nazareth which are difficult if not impossible to evaluate due to the lack of hard data.<br /><br /><br />But I believe this kind of scenarios (Aslan) can be ruled out as being unlikely.<br /><br />If Jesus was only one apocalyptic prophet among many others, then why don’t we find texts from their followers who claim they rose from the dead?<br /><br />We know this was the case of Jesus former disciples one or two decades after his death.<br /><br />To my mind, the best naturalist hypothesis is that:<br /><br />1) the body disappeared from his grave in one way or the other, it was maybe stolen by robbers (or mischievous space aliens for that matter)<br />2) the disciples were puzzled by an empty tomb<br />3) afterwards, they experienced powerful hallucinations<br /><br />This would be one good (or at least not too bad) explanation how Christianity could have started.<br /><br />Aslan seems to be a liberal Muslim, conservative ones would always insist that Jesus was someone very special.<br />A friend of mine is also a liberal Muslim from Palestine, I’m going to ask him what his take on this is.<br /><br /><br />I'm looking forward to reading your answer!<br /><br /><br />Kind regards from Germany. <br /><br /><br />Lothars Sohn – Lothar’s son<br /><br />http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com<br /><br /><br /><br />August 11, 2013 at 1:08 AM <br /> David B Marshall said...<br />Lothar: Why not post this in one of the Aslan threads, so other people who have posted there can interact as well? <br /><br />But the short answer is, I "know" very little. And I would call that a strong "conservative" bias, indeed.<br /><br />I actually think Aslan's argument should be very welcome to smart Muslims. In effect, he seems to be arguing that Jesus was a prophet a lot like Mohammed, in effect justifying the violence of the latter by the purported violent intents of the former. In that sense, maybe Aslan is being too clever for a lot of "inside the box" type Muslims -- or maybe they will get what he's doing.Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08328792937888689350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-57850665304967479712013-08-13T09:14:01.605-07:002013-08-13T09:14:01.605-07:00Ben: Yes, well, there really are a lot of stupid r...Ben: Yes, well, there really are a lot of stupid reviews on Amazon on both sides. Some of the one-star reviews are quite embarrassing. But quite a few other scholars have charmed in, now, finding lots more errors I missed, and making some of the same points, especially Craig Evan's review for the latter. David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-43336621114576099742013-08-13T09:11:57.563-07:002013-08-13T09:11:57.563-07:00Lothar Sohn posted this on another thread:
Your ...Lothar Sohn posted this on another thread: <br /><br />Your criticism of Aslan's book was quite interesting, but it does shows you've also a conservative bias.<br /><br />How do you know, for example, that the sayings "no one has ever done that" were not added by the Gospel writers or an editor?<br /><br /><br />There are many not-implausible, contradictory theories about Jesus of Nazareth which are difficult if not impossible to evaluate due to the lack of hard data.<br /><br />But I believe this kind of scenarios (Aslan) can be ruled out as being unlikely.<br /><br />If Jesus was only one apocalyptic prophet among many others, then why don’t we find texts from their followers who claim they rose from the dead?<br /><br />We know this was the case of Jesus former disciples one or two decades after his death.<br /><br />To my mind, the best naturalist hypothesis is that:<br /><br />1) the body disappeared from his grave in one way or the other, it was maybe stolen by robbers (or mischievous space aliens for that matter)<br />2) the disciples were puzzled by an empty tomb<br />3) afterwards, they experienced powerful hallucinations<br /><br />This would be one good (or at least not too bad) explanation how Christianity could have started.<br /><br />Aslan seems to be a liberal Muslim, conservative ones would always insist that Jesus was someone very special.<br />A friend of mine is also a liberal Muslim from Palestine, I’m going to ask him what his take on this is.<br /><br />I'm looking forward to reading your answer!<br /><br />Kind regards from Germany.<br /><br />Lothars Sohn – Lothar’s son<br /><br />http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com<br /><br />My reply: The short answer is, I "know" very little. And I would call that a strong "conservative" bias, indeed. <br /><br />I actually think Aslan's argument might be welcome to clever Muslims with a weak grasp of the scholarship. In effect, he seems to be arguing that Jesus was a prophet a lot like Mohammed, in effect justifying the violence of the latter by the purported violent intents of the former. In that sense, maybe Aslan is being too clever for a lot of "inside the box" type Muslims -- or maybe they will get what he's doing.<br /><br /> David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-67378296732453088092013-08-12T11:37:43.632-07:002013-08-12T11:37:43.632-07:00Another review of an academic pointing out that As...Another review of an academic pointing out that Aslan's work isn't exactly academic: http://jewishreviewofbooks.com/articles/449/reza-aslan-what-jesus-wasnt/<br /><br />What disturbs me most about the interview is how many people just couldn't resist posting it on Facebook as self-evidently showing how stupid the Fox people are. There were several posts of the "I don't usually post these things but I couldn't help myself" variety. Unfortunately, digging past the interview to the actual book shows that self-evidence cuts both ways.Ben McFarlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08364608981370156708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-82762791198218894182013-08-09T13:21:53.352-07:002013-08-09T13:21:53.352-07:00X's post was truly embarrassing. I don't ...X's post was truly embarrassing. I don't recommend anyone who is susceptible to cringing read it. I posted it here in a moment of stupidity and last minute rush before hitting the road. David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-18716357760855694782013-08-06T16:47:46.121-07:002013-08-06T16:47:46.121-07:00Here you are.
http://christianityisevil.blogspot.r...Here you are.<br />http://christianityisevil.blogspot.ru/2013/08/christian-apologists-just-dont-get-it.htmlXAtheistXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08188378589762657693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-60597073430350465442013-08-06T15:40:12.903-07:002013-08-06T15:40:12.903-07:00Yes, Gnus often find it hard to get anything out, ...Yes, Gnus often find it hard to get anything out, in response to factual historical reasoning -- aside from bluster and vituperation. I see some of the former, can perhaps look forward to some of the latter as well. But I won't be by a computer much over the next few weeks, being on the road, so if you don't post it here, I probably won't see it -- and even here, might take some time to respond. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12934365167621451886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-56346386803709886132013-08-06T15:30:50.443-07:002013-08-06T15:30:50.443-07:00There are so many specious arguments being employe...There are so many specious arguments being employed here it is difficult to know where to begin first. I suppose the unreliability of the gospels is one place. <br /><br />I think on my blog I will respond in full to this nonsensical review. Please keep an eye out for it. :0 )XAtheistXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08188378589762657693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-66060646180458900262013-08-05T14:31:02.244-07:002013-08-05T14:31:02.244-07:00Interesting thoughts. The more reviews I read (co...Interesting thoughts. The more reviews I read (couple new good ones on Amazon, 2 and 3 stars respectively), the deeper we dig, the more nothing one seems to unearth. <br /><br />Sorry for the trouble posting, Peter -- sometimes this machine treats newcomers like that. David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-85251390066012417422013-08-05T13:06:31.268-07:002013-08-05T13:06:31.268-07:00I have been trying to post this on your Amazon rev...I have been trying to post this on your Amazon review, but it keeps getting rejected as "inappropriate."<br /><br />This is an excellent review. <br /><br />If we can't trust an author in small details, we ought not trust him in large matters. David Marshall is to be commended for his close reading of Aslan's book and his critical attention to detail. <br /><br />I read this review before I wrote my own. I thought I had read Zealot fairly closely, but I missed the point about Aslan apparently thinking that Capernaum is on the Mediterranean. <br /><br />This kind of odd mistakes may be telling. For example, there is this weird one:<br /><br />"It is only in the last of the canonized gospels, the gospel of John, written sometime between 100 and 120 C.E., that Paul’s vision of Jesus as Christ— the eternal logos, the only begotten son of God— can be found. Of course, by then, nearly half a decade after the destruction of Jerusalem, Christianity was already a thoroughly Romanized religion, and Paul’s Christ had long obliterated any last trace of the Jewish messiah in Jesus."<br /><br />Aslan, Reza (2013-07-16). Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth (Kindle Locations 2959-2963). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. <br /><br />A "half a decade"? Since Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD and Aslan puts the writing of John at 100 to 120 AD, the operative interval is 30 to 50 years, not a half a decade. <br /><br />Presumably, this will be cleared up in future editions, but these kind of gross mistakes in logic, grammar or chronology may be kind of a "tell" that the author is trying to force the logic of a narrative and has lost track of details in a moment of "psychological disorientation." Justin George Lawler explains in "Were the Popes Against the Jews?":<br /><br />"This the more or less secondary object - since it is on those borders that lurk aspects of the text hinting at something amiss. These hints often take the form of errors in spelling and punctuation, or of less blatant mistakes having to do with grammar, logic, and chronology. In themselves these may be insignificant and readily corrected, but they are often a clue to something beneath the surface of the author's presentation that demands greater attention. The basic assumption behind this entire process is that any such minor disruptive element in the text of an experienced writer - and here I return to David I. Kertzer - is a kind of "tic" that betrays preoccupation with some rhetorical or logical stratagem that may reveal more about the author than his explicit statements."<br /><br />See [[ASIN:0802866298 Were the Popes Against the Jews?: Tracking the Myths, Confronting the Ideologues]]<br /><br />Are these mistakes significant? Who knows, but these kinds of mistakes are disturbing.<br />Peter Seanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10710410499391419230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-76392374515281778512013-08-02T19:19:44.998-07:002013-08-02T19:19:44.998-07:00His reluctance to kill Jesus stems from his desire...<i>His reluctance to kill Jesus stems from his desire to not be used as a glorified executioner by the Jewish elite.</i><br /><br />I think that's definitely part of it, but I think Pilate is a bit multifaceted. I agree Pilate is not depicted as righteous. He's depicted as pretty human.<br /><br />Pilate, at least when I read what he did, comes across as someone who'd like to do what he thinks is the right thing - but only if it comes at minimal expense to him. And, he would be more than happy to have the duty not be his whatsoever. But when he can't escape it, he's going to see what he can do that saves his skin and is 'right' - but if he can't do both, he's going to do what's wrong.<br /><br />When Pilate asks 'What is truth?', I see something very modern, maybe even essentially human in him. I think it's a forced skepticism.Crudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04178390947423928444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-25819502625393742002013-08-01T09:56:49.864-07:002013-08-01T09:56:49.864-07:00"The gospels present Pilate as a righteous ye..."The gospels present Pilate as a righteous yet weak-willed man so overcome with doubt about putting Jesus of Nazareth to death that he does everything in his power to save his life . . . This is pure fiction."<br /><br />The Gospels do NOT present Pilate as "righteous." His reluctance to kill Jesus stems from his desire to not be used as a glorified executioner by the Jewish elite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com