tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post3652010775970096877..comments2024-03-25T02:16:16.247-07:00Comments on Christ the Tao: Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-28238341387880320622018-10-22T19:31:19.967-07:002018-10-22T19:31:19.967-07:00Cameron: Good question.
In my last book, Jesus i...Cameron: Good question. <br /><br />In my last book, Jesus is No Myth, I described 30 characteristics of the gospels which I believe strongly demonstrate their general historicity and credibility. None of those traits depend on the accuracy of anything in the Old Testament. <br /><br />However, as I research for my new book, on how Jesus liberates women, I am finding that Jesus' teaching really is the fulfillment of trends that cause the OT to stand out distinctly from other ancient writings and cultures. While I am not an inerracist, like C. S. Lewis I greatly value and treasure the ancient Jewish writings, and recognize the hand of God upon them. This feeling has been amplified as I included some Jewish texts in my Foundations of World Literature textbook: the OT really is full of wonderful things. I feel that many such skeptics are far too small-minded, living in a pathetic and narrow world indeed. David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-70177151244303741872018-10-22T18:51:28.823-07:002018-10-22T18:51:28.823-07:00Hi Mr. Marshall. Great post. I was wondering about...Hi Mr. Marshall. Great post. I was wondering about something: do you think that Christianity relies heavily on the truth of the claims of the Old Testament? What if most or all of the events have either been proven false or have no evidence for their occurrence? <br /><br />If the Old Testament is not historically true, then what’s to stop the New Testament from also being in the same category, especially in light of Jesus referencing to Moses (a character who the majority of scholars agree did not exist) and the Patriarchs? <br /><br />If the Old Testament can’t be trusted as historical, then why believe any of it? <br /><br />Some atheists argue that Christianity’s entire faith can be bound to the Pentateuch. Without that, Christians don’t have a reason to believe in God. <br /><br />https://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/of-course-what-you-say-is-true-but-we-should-not-say-it-publically-13/<br />I'd love if you could respond to this article. <br /><br />Thank you for your time and God bless.Cameron Wardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16909075158934751977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-50324951325213615542017-03-13T22:05:57.361-07:002017-03-13T22:05:57.361-07:00Well, again, I think my two points still stand. F...Well, again, I think my two points still stand. First, the fact that a simple or unsophisticated notion of God may be held by some people, does not undermine a more sophisticated notion. In the same way, some people believe the sun is a god moving across the sky in a chariot. That does not make belief in the sun per se incredible. Neither would the fact that a primitive notion of God was held by some, undermine a more credible notion. <br /><br />After all, my grounds for faith in God are not the testimony of the author of, say, Leviticus. <br /><br />And secondly, a "higher" notion of God is, in fact, already present in cultures around the world, probably from long before the Bible was written. Win Corduan's In the Beginning, God, renewed the case for this a couple years after I wrote this post. But it was strong already, as I explain in this post. <br /><br />David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-91459595450960334602017-03-13T21:36:36.442-07:002017-03-13T21:36:36.442-07:00David, do you believe in the doctrine of progressi...David, do you believe in the doctrine of progressive revelation? I think (admittedly from excerpts I have read in this chapter) that he makes a fairly convincing case that Yahweh was a physical being, not a spiritual one. I don't think this is compatible with the doctrine of progressive revelation.. Joshua Anandappa https://www.blogger.com/profile/06892417020929894764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-19349894773412049522011-09-20T07:44:16.453-07:002011-09-20T07:44:16.453-07:00{{And why did you print more than 5000 copies of y...{{And why did you print more than 5000 copies of your book?}}<br /><br />Retailers take a book more seriously when there are physical copies being professionally warehoused by a distributor somewhere. At the time I published, reviewers were not much interested in print-on-demand either.<br /><br />Also, buying copies in bulk reduced the production costs, so I could provide them at a competitive list price for retailers to mark down. Most hardback epic fantasy books at the time listed for $25, so giving retailers room to mark down as much as 50%, plus allowing for various other distribution costs and taxes on sales and shipping (the publisher has to pay for shipping to the retailer; the customer pays for shipping onward from there, if any), I needed to be able to produce the books at around $6.50 per unit.<br /><br />At this point, though, I'm better off donating the books to a readership base and building up interest (hopefully) for the sequels, than paying a few hundred dollars a month for warehousing.<br /><br />Besides which, I think soldiers will like this story. {g}<br /><br />JRPJason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-68818092015854437932011-09-20T07:30:03.078-07:002011-09-20T07:30:03.078-07:00http://booksforsoldiers.com/
In my case, I'm ...http://booksforsoldiers.com/<br /><br />In my case, I'm sending 100 autographed and numbered copies through "Reader Views", which is a review service who put out a call for donated books and is serving as one of the forwarding and packing stations.<br /><br />Reader Views<br />Books for Soldiers<br />3267 Bee Cave Road, Ste 107-380<br />Austin, TX 78746<br /><br /><br />Irene (who runs the service) repacks the books in candy (not meltable candy) to protect them in shipment, in 75 lb boxes. There's a list of soldiers who have requested books from the program, and extra copies are disbursed through various military programs, too.<br /><br />You'll have to pay shipment to the packing stations, but BFS pays shipment onward from there.<br /><br />JRPJason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-13994629462026391002011-09-20T06:56:29.463-07:002011-09-20T06:56:29.463-07:00Jason: That's an idea! Maybe I should contrib...Jason: That's an idea! Maybe I should contribute some of my books, too. How does that work? Whom would I contact? <br /><br />And why did you print more than 5000 copies of your book?David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-26385678963844679532011-09-20T06:17:28.276-07:002011-09-20T06:17:28.276-07:00Not much fiction writing (can't afford it {g})...Not much fiction writing (can't afford it {g}), although I'm about to ship 100 copies of CoJ out as a donation to the "Books for Soldiers" program. (And would gladly donate another 5000 just to get them out of the warehouse so I won't have to pay rent on them! {lol})<br /><br />I'm currently prepping for a podcast debate with a Calvinist Christian apologist (the pseudonymous but popular internet author Turretinfan) on whether five selections of scripture actually teach that some people will not be saved from their sins.<br /><br />The announcement page, with links to TFan's blog and to our host's blog, can be found <a href="http://www.evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2200" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />I'll be arguing that the narrative, thematic and citational (OT) contexts of four of five of the sets unexpectedly but strongly weigh in favor of universal salvation from sin (and the fifth one doesn't exclude it.)<br /><br />The debate should start being posted up in parts the second week of October.<br /><br />JRPJason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-2172802061634989372011-09-19T10:43:11.496-07:002011-09-19T10:43:11.496-07:00Jason: I was afraid someone would catch my Bushism...Jason: I was afraid someone would catch my Bushism. But it might make a good word. <br /><br />You hit the nail on the head with your first remark. How's the writing going for you these days, BTW?David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-85751067769962726992011-09-19T10:26:50.414-07:002011-09-19T10:26:50.414-07:00Also, speaking as one of those latter types of Chr...Also, speaking as one of those latter types of Christians concerning what I would say about Allah: I declare "informated" to be a real word. {gggg!}<br /><br />JRPJason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-13643782874360142142011-09-19T09:39:09.229-07:002011-09-19T09:39:09.229-07:00If anything it would be the other way around: &quo...If anything it would be the other way around: "Godism" was downgraded (somewhat) into "Yahwehism".<br /><br />Even with the Iron Age character and attitude of YHWH, though, there are a lot of sophisticated metaphysical ideas being colloquially expressed in the OT texts.<br /><br />JRPJason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-6219411520854610612011-09-19T08:08:58.899-07:002011-09-19T08:08:58.899-07:00To answer, here's Gericke, again:
"Yet w...To answer, here's Gericke, again:<br /><br />"Yet we are now told to believe in what is supposed to be the 'real God' even though his Iron Age (1200-500 BCE) character and supernatural setup appeared on the scene late in the history of religion at some point during the second half of the second millennium BCE -- and just happens to externally resemble the culture of this era . . . Not only was Yahwism (now upgraded to Godism) a latecomer in the history of religions, it was also a very local affair." (148)<br /><br />Given the facts I mention, this is myopic, absurd, and in its main points rebutted. The God we believe in appeared long before the Iron Age, is NOT tied to any hierarchical culture, is NOT just local, and was NOT "upgraded" to "Godism" -- his universal character has been known among thousands of peoples around the world, since before hierarchy developed. <br /><br />To say God's existence cannot be empirically verified, is to beg the question. <br /><br />Yahweh does NOT condemn the High God -- in fact, the Bible accepts "pagan" terms for him, including Elohim, theos, and even (implicitly, in Acts 17) Zeus. Even if he did somewhere, unless you're an inerracist, I don't know why it would follow that the High God does not exist. Some Christians even today say "Allah does not exist," while others (better informated) say "Allah is the Arabic word for 'God,' though we think Muslim Arabs have some wrong ideas about Him." If the former were somewhere represented in the OT, that would not disprove the latter.David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-49336341886953188502011-09-19T07:52:08.582-07:002011-09-19T07:52:08.582-07:00(Note: A skeptic posted the following comment, whi...(Note: A skeptic posted the following comment, which I will give in full, under a pseudonym that violated posting guidelines. Again: "we do screen the honest popes from the spamming popes." If we screen out fake popes, why publish false gods? Please do return under more honest pretexts.-- DM)<br /><br />"If I understand Gericke's argument correctly, he never said other peoples did not worship supreme beings. He said that the character of Yhwh in the Old Testament, in his knowledge of other peoples, seems not to be aware of the existence of those mentioned, cf. Genesis 10. Also, your analogy with Gericke as a character in a book is weak since Gericke's existence can be empirically verified while God's cannot. Moreover, your idea that the high gods of other peoples are also God is contra the Old Testament god's own condemnation of them."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-81107686402471802942011-09-17T08:32:03.112-07:002011-09-17T08:32:03.112-07:00John: You're just begging the question, rather...John: You're just begging the question, rather than dealing with the evidence. The fact is, Gericke's theory assumes that "God" is a philosophical construct that derives from Yahweh, and that it comes later. He says this directly. As I show, he is wrong. St. Paul and Augustine were right, as modern anthropology has proven, in predicting that an awareness of God would be found among peoples worldwide. <br /><br />What we seem to have here, is an instance of "cognitive dissonance" on the part of skeptics. You need to come up with a post hoc theory to explain the genuine pattern of the evidence, rather than go on with your original, failed theory. This some skeptics have tried to do, but Gericke's chapter does not. <br /><br />To answer your first question, the "natives" themselves often recognize that "God" transcends cultures, and that his names in different cultures refer to the same unique, supreme being. This is why the Zhou made ready use of the Shang Dynasty name for God, Shang Di -- which Christians still use in China to this day. Durkheim noted that Australian tribes also recognized the cultural transcendence of God. <br /><br />Anyway, how many culturally-transcendant, supremely power, good, Creator-Gods can there be? The characteristics of "God" in hundreds of cultures neccessarily mark Him as the same being. The irony is that modern scholars often prove less sophisticated in recognizing this point than the "primitive natives." <br /><br />Please do invite Gericke to debate the facts with me. I'll be happy to engage him both on the level of logic (theology / philosophy), and on the level of empirical evidence (anthropology). <br /><br />To answer your last flurry of questions, I'm an empiricist, I don't know anything about hell. I personally expect to find Confucius, Epictetus, Socrates, and Zhuang Zi in heaven, though. If God sometimes answers prayers that land in the "misdirected file," that's up to Him; who am I to object? But I'll take it on a case-by-case basis.David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-79955066649720290792011-09-17T08:31:31.149-07:002011-09-17T08:31:31.149-07:00From John Loftus, on Amazon:
David, at some poin...From John Loftus, on Amazon: <br /><br />David, at some point you must recognize something we do, that all conceptions of God are human in origin and that they evolve down the centuries in different cultures. If there are any similarities it doesn't mean anything but that humans conceive of their gods and goddesses alike precisely because we are human beings. This is plain to see. But you cannot see it because you are blind. I can no more help you see this by poking you in the eye. <br /><br />In any case, even if these god conceptions are the same, which they are not, then why must we suppose they all point to your modern conception of God? And if your particular god could not reveal himself any better than that, then explain why he couldn't. Why not? It simply looks indistinguishable from him not revealing himself at all.<br /><br />Further, would you please tell us which particular god is answering all the prayers offered by believers in the different non-Christian religions who will be condemned to hell because by answering their prayers he's providing them evidence that their non-Christian religion is true? Why would your God provide evidence to believe in a false god via answered prayer when doing so will keep unsaved non-Christians from accepting Jesus as their savior?<br /><br />http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2011/07/who-answers-prayers.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-17259790314043760432011-09-05T19:51:47.889-07:002011-09-05T19:51:47.889-07:00Brian: You're right, Zeus does exist, at least...Brian: You're right, Zeus does exist, at least as understood by Cleanthes: <br /><br />Most glorious of the immortals, invoked by many names, ever all-powerful,<br /><br />Zeus, the First Cause of Nature, who rules all things with Law,<br /><br />Hail! It is right for mortals to call upon you, since from you we have our being, we whose lot it is to be God's image, we alone of all mortal creatures that live and move upon the earth.<br /><br />Accordingly, I will praise you with my hymn and ever sing of your might. The whole universe, spinning around the earth,<br />goes wherever you lead it and is willingly guided by you.<br />So great is the servant which you hold in your invincible hands,<br />your eternal, two-edged, lightning-forked thunderbolt. By its strokes all the works of nature came to be established,<br />and with it you guide the universal Word of Reason which moves through all creation,<br />mingling with the great sun and the small stars.<br /><br />O God, without you nothing comes to be on earth, neither in the region of the heavenly poles, nor in the sea, except what evil men do in their folly.<br /><br />But you know how to make extraordinary things suitable,<br />and how to bring order forth from chaos; and even that which is unlovely is lovely to you.<br />For thus you have joined all things, the good with the bad, into one, so that the eternal Word of all came to be one.<br /><br />This Word, however, evil mortals flee, poor wretches; though they are desirous of good things for their possession, they neither see nor listen to God's universal Law;<br />and yet, if they obey it intelligently, they would have the good life.<br /><br />But they are senselessly driven to one evil after another:<br />some are eager for fame, no matter how godlessly it is acquired;<br />others are set on making money without any orderly principles in their lives; and others are bent on ease and on the pleasures and delights of the body.<br /><br />They do these foolish things, time and again, and are swept along, eagerly defeating all they really wish for.<br /><br />O Zeus, giver of all, shrouded in dark clouds and holding the vivid bright lightning, rescue men from painful ignorance. Scatter that ignorance far from their hearts.<br />and deign to rule all things in justice. so that, honored in this way, we may render honor to you in return, and sing your deeds unceasingly, as befits mortals;<br />for there is no greater glory for men or for gods than to justly praise the universal Word of Reason.David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-38529556594782705472011-09-05T06:21:24.473-07:002011-09-05T06:21:24.473-07:00Where Gerick goes wrong is in assuming the Zeus is...Where Gerick goes wrong is in assuming the Zeus is a self-evidently ridiculous, childish and incredible view of a god. The Ancient Greeks did not think so, and they were very smart indeed. I would approach this from a different angle: Zeus could well exist, as could Yahweh, and as could the more “philosophical” conceptions of God found among later theistic theologians. God could well be an old man with a beard living in a courtyard up in the Alps. Who can say for sure? Since we don’t know much about the Divine, religion should be open to all conceptions of God and gods. And polytheism is compatible with monotheism – the various “gods” are just partial manifestations of the One Big UberGod who encompasses them all – they are aspects of the Divine (sort of like the Trinity in Christianity – three gods in One God). <br /><br />I wonder do two people anywhere mean that exact same thing by the word “God”? In my own view, the word “God” refers to The Totality of Everything that Exists Everywhere (since the “Totality of Reality” is a being of whom there is no greater – this is basically a Spinozist conception of God). But I don’t insist that everyone share this view of God – for example, strictly speaking, I think Christians are idolators who worship a false god, whereas I worship the true God. I even think that orthodox Christians are not true followers of Jesus since I do not think that Jesus advocated the Trinity, the Incarnation or the Resurrection, and these are the central doctrines of institutional Christianity – they are a corruption of the teachings of Jesus. But I might be wrong about all of this, since there is no certainty in these matters, so I will not call Christians idolators, since I could be wrong and they could be right (and the same goes for people who worship Zeus) – and in any case, the Christian conception of God contains some of the characteristics of the true God that I myself worship, so Christians are not totally wrong, just as the Aborigines and the Ancient Greeks were not totally wrong either.Brian Barringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11025043345722806768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-33566146636104946522011-09-03T14:03:12.140-07:002011-09-03T14:03:12.140-07:00Hans: I wouldn't use the word "monotheism...Hans: I wouldn't use the word "monotheism." The technical term "monolatry" is more accurate, since aside from a Supreme God, there are always other spirits, as there were in ancient Israel, and in Medieval Europe. But there's usually a vast disconnect between the two, as between the words "God" and "gods." <br /><br />Doubts are healthy, hope you find something interesting.David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-69550367357978871602011-09-03T13:59:54.028-07:002011-09-03T13:59:54.028-07:00Jason: Completely accidental; I'll have to adm...Jason: Completely accidental; I'll have to admit to absolute ignorance. Sometimes there's a hidden joke in the photos I use, but not in this case. My main strategy game right now is how to get blackberries out of bushes without getting scratched (it's more challenging if you just wear running shorts), and where to find mountain blueberries.David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-28247915573308340482011-09-03T13:41:32.985-07:002011-09-03T13:41:32.985-07:00I find your examples of different cultures believi...I find your examples of different cultures believing in a sort of monotheism to be breathtaking. I am filled with questions and doubts and feelings and all that jazz. I have often wondered about that particular issue myself, and whether it actually is possible to compare indigenous peoples' religions with Christianity. <br /><br />Yet at the same time I am filled with doubt. It seems as though one would have to collect the similarities and discard the differences to get to the conclusion that these peoples actually believe in the same God, and I am also reminded of the poor job early researchers of religion did when they compared mediterranean myths with Christianity and concluded that the latter was just an imitation of the former. I would hope that Christian researchers didn't make the same mistakes to support their views as anti-christians did to support their's.<br /><br />Nonetheless, I'll check out the links. Sounds exciting :)Hanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12317543495032200748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-71569114199515388002011-09-03T13:40:54.961-07:002011-09-03T13:40:54.961-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Hanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12317543495032200748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-84081693281515780552011-09-03T13:23:09.952-07:002011-09-03T13:23:09.952-07:00Completely aside from the merit of the article, I ...Completely aside from the merit of the article, I have to geek at the screenshot grabbed from the box of the <i>Age of Mythology</i> game.<br /><br />{gggggg!}<br /><br /><br />Was that sort-of accidental, or do you actually play real-time strategy games David? (I've had that series on my shelf for a long time but never fired it up, having already been spoiled by next-gen games where units operate in formation automatically.)<br /><br />JRPJason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.com