tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post6481282480130799820..comments2024-03-25T02:16:16.247-07:00Comments on Christ the Tao: Avalos on the Resurrection: Some challengesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-22213126100110762632013-03-09T07:42:44.184-08:002013-03-09T07:42:44.184-08:00eh meant to say "counter-apologist" inst...eh meant to say "counter-apologist" instead of 'anti-apologist'. If that makes a difference.<br /><br />By the way I ordered that Richard Bauckman book that you spoke of in this post a few days ago on Jesus and the eyewitnesses. I heard it was excellent! <br /><br />And I heard Bauckman is a great scholar from Cambridge.<br /> Cornell Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13255210404560230404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-34684653184883693302013-03-09T07:38:33.675-08:002013-03-09T07:38:33.675-08:00AH I see, this just goes to show then that he has ...AH I see, this just goes to show then that he has an 'agenda' that he works with, so this opens the door to more 'emotions' being capable of playing a part here. We might hear things on his behalf with the motive of being more anti-apologetic rather than more what history REALLY says. It's like a Boston Red Sox fan who gets more satisifaction from a New York Yankees loss than a Red Sox win.<br /><br />In conclusion we must keep in mind that he uses a bit of tunnel vision here and only focuses on apologetics, so we would always have to keep that in mind. I'm not saying this automatically makes him wrong, but it gives me more reason to be skeptical about his claims.<br /><br />I would give him more credit if he broadened his views a bit IMO and took on liberal scholars once in awhile. Though that's just me.<br /><br />Hopefully he see's this, as he really should take this into consideration. There are OTHER people that disagree with his views out there, I'm sure some of those people happen to be liberal scholars. So I'd really like to hear why those scholars are also wrong.Cornell Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13255210404560230404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-43965053679360289032013-03-09T07:28:36.111-08:002013-03-09T07:28:36.111-08:00Cornell: I haven't read Avalos' book on bi...Cornell: I haven't read Avalos' book on biblical scholarship, yet. My impression is, he attacks the whole lot as beholden to Christian apologetics. Take that, Robert Funk. : - )<br /><br />But I'll have to read the book for specifics. I critiqued Avalos' book on religion and violence in six or so detailed blogs here last year. He was kind enough to send me his book on Christianity and slavery, in manuscript, but I haven't had a chance to read it yet. Eventually I hope to get all of these works. David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-89664876106713057612013-03-09T07:19:06.580-08:002013-03-09T07:19:06.580-08:00Has Hector Avalos ever engaged the Jesus Seminar w...Has Hector Avalos ever engaged the Jesus Seminar with a disagreement or does he always focus on conservative scholars?Cornell Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13255210404560230404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-19805284583018457362013-03-07T14:08:45.059-08:002013-03-07T14:08:45.059-08:00Precisely. The Jesus Seminar is very big on those...Precisely. The Jesus Seminar is very big on those "independent traditions," reading things into them, and inventing imaginary histories for phony gospels. But there certainly are diverse sources, as Richard Bauckham shows in a particularly fascinating way in Jesus and the Eyewitnesses. David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-72427916516610601262013-03-07T13:56:30.091-08:002013-03-07T13:56:30.091-08:00When attacking the Resurrection, Avalos finds it c...When attacking the Resurrection, Avalos finds it convenient to treat the NT as a single source. That way he can deny multiple-attestation.<br /><br />However, unbelievers often take just the opposite tack by claiming that the NT represents a diversity of conflicting theological viewpoints. But that could only be true if it contains many independent contributors. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-47651707236438195742013-03-07T12:26:08.640-08:002013-03-07T12:26:08.640-08:00On reviewing the source Dr. Avalos linked to, I fi...On reviewing the source Dr. Avalos linked to, I find nothing I said needs to be taken back or ammended. Avalos is wrong in assuming my source for what I said was the Discovery Institute: it was, instead, Gonzalez himself. (Who wrote a chapter for my Faith Seeking Understanding.) I didn't claim that Iowa State had directly cited Avalos' anti-ID petition, or that the petition specifically mentioned Gonzalez. <br /><br />So it is not true that my comments, parenthetical as they were, were a symptom of bad historical method on my part. <br /><br />Nor do they derive from blind adherance to the Discovery Institute, whose press releases I am always somewhat skeptical about. <br /><br />The truth is, I just don't like pressures towards intellectual conformity in general. Here is what I wrote just this morning in response to criticism of Rob Bell on a Christian web site, for instance: <br /><br />"My point is that I prefer the attitude of the 2nd and 3rd Centuries to that so often developed in the late 4th and 5th: I think Christianity took a wrong turn, there. Not in terms of the content of doctrine, but in the focus on excessive demands for intellectual conformity."<br /><br />I do appreciate the interesting information provided by Avalos' link. It does explain Avalos' position better than I had been aware. But if anything, I think it also underlines my general point somewhat. David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-16314669240345409642013-03-07T12:04:22.095-08:002013-03-07T12:04:22.095-08:00My source is Guillermo himself. I said "clima...My source is Guillermo himself. I said "climactic" role, to distinguish from direct influence.<br /> The term is often implied in such phrases as "climate of hatred," which I however avoided, and was not used by Dr. Gonzalez. But the phrase does recognize that discriminatory actions are usually not taken in a social vacuum. <br /><br />The larger points are that discrimination does, indeed, seem to occur on occasion, at least as many as you have cited, against wrong-thinking Christians on secular campuses. There seems to be sufficient evidence that that played a role at your school, even if your own role was indirect and perhaps unintentional. Also that discrimination is far less justifiable at a secular school, than at a private school, which you conflate in your argument. <br /><br />But of course these are relative footnotes to the overall argument. I considered not mentioning this, to avoid drawing attention away from the more important arguments, and because, frankly, I don't have any great wish to provoke your enmity. I'd rather remain civil with you, as we seemed to become in more recent posts. But the fact that you in particular, at Iowa State of all places, made that argument, spreading the manure so blanketlyabout Christian scholars as well, made it hard for me to keep mum. Also, I live in thrall to the Muse Irony. <br /><br />I will, however, check your link (thank you), and if I seem to be wrong about something, make the necessary corrections and / or apologies.<br />David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-58260618135822945762013-03-07T12:02:46.697-08:002013-03-07T12:02:46.697-08:00From Avalos, cross-posted by Marshall:
As usual,...From Avalos, cross-posted by Marshall: <br /><br />As usual, your hasty work results in sloppy documentation, and misunderstandings of what I wrote. I will just give one example for now.<br /><br />RE: "Read Guillermo Gonzalez' account of how he lost his job at Hector Avalos' own university, Iowa State University, (a controversy in which Avalos himself seems to have played no neglible at least climactic role), in Faith Seeking Understanding." <br /><br />You really have no knowledge of this case, and I have already explained how those accusations are false, and mostly propaganda from the Discovery Institute, among other pro-ID vehicles.<br /><br />See; http://www.talkreason.org/arti...<br /><br />For you to repeat them as though they have credibility is itself testimony as to the careless way in which you deal with historical evidence. <br /><br />As usual, you are hasty in doing your homework instead of taking the time and effort to get your narrative right and well documented.<br /><br />-If I am wrong, could you reveal to us the internal documents from the department that establish my alleged role in any decision about his job? <br /><br />-Why did you not quote the actual stated reasons given by the university for not bestowing tenure?<br /><br />-If you did, then why were those reasons not satisfactory to you? <br /><br />-Where did ever speak about his tenure? <br /><br />-What exactly was the nature of my influence on the vote by his department?<br /><br />Could you answer those questions so that we can test how well you deal with a balanced approach to historical evidence where all the witnesses are still alive?David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.com