tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post6604032311355308622..comments2024-03-25T02:16:16.247-07:00Comments on Christ the Tao: Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-27021113297184395782011-11-16T06:13:42.614-08:002011-11-16T06:13:42.614-08:00Reading allegories of Jesus into everything is the...Reading allegories of Jesus into everything is the opposite mistake of fundamentalist separatism, though less harmful. If we're going to engage with the arts, we have to meet them on their own terms, not force meanings in that aren't there. <br /><br />Dune and its sequels, for example, (the books, I haven't seen the movie) have plenty of good material for a discussion on the nature of power or the human tendency to self-destruct in pursuit of our deepest desires.<br /><br />In his new "Paul Through Mediteranean Eyes" on 1 Corinthians, Kenneth Bailey argues that Paul had Pericles' speech about the sacrifice of Greek warriors in mind when he discusses the wisdom of God and the cross in chapters 1 and 2. But Paul does not try to force an allegory or say "Jesus is just like these warriors", and there are as many contrasts as similarities.Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-39538921051618788482011-10-02T21:59:24.988-07:002011-10-02T21:59:24.988-07:00Thanks for your thoughtful response, David.
Actua...Thanks for your thoughtful response, David.<br /><br />Actually, growing up in a nondenominational setting, people within that circle pushed to see "Christ" in just about everything, tying it to having a "single eye". I tend to see a lot of Chinese history and philosophy in this light; like people stuck in a dark room looking, feeling, and shouting out for a light. I think it's particularly clear in Mozi and his idea of "universal love" (note: not to be confused with the '60s notion of the same name), which is about as close to the teachings of Jesus as any culture ever got without Him.<br /><br />But, like you, I'm still thinking about all these things and trying to learn how it all fits into the whole.Joshuanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-14426533834381417562011-09-22T07:15:10.511-07:002011-09-22T07:15:10.511-07:00Crude: Do follow the link, then, and read the arti...Crude: Do follow the link, then, and read the article on the Gospel in Groundhog Day. It's good.David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-57511173551364992092011-09-21T13:18:24.235-07:002011-09-21T13:18:24.235-07:00One of the few, few shining moments in my Catholic...One of the few, few shining moments in my Catholic schooling that I remember was when a kindly old nun told her english class that, as Catholics, when we read fiction books or watch movies, we should be attempting to take away a Christian understanding from it - even if that wasn't the intent of the author.<br /><br />At the time, I thought it was silly. Now, I don't. And I think one key is to recognize that 'finding Christianity' in a movie or book does not mean coming to the conclusion that 'The author intended to give this message'. It just means taking in a story with a particular perspective and making your own understanding of it, informed by your own principles. You can do that while recognizing 'That's not what this writer intended' all at the same time.<br /><br />For the record, Groundhog Day is a favorite of mine as well.Crudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04178390947423928444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-45786834196201785342011-09-21T10:44:48.633-07:002011-09-21T10:44:48.633-07:00Thanks, Joshua -- that's a great question.
...Thanks, Joshua -- that's a great question. <br /><br />I'm tempted to say, like art, you'll know it when you see it. But that won't do, because people see it differently. <br /><br />Here's one way to separate the wheat from the chaff: make a list, say, of all that is said about the "Suffering Servant" in Isaiah 52-3. Mark what is of central importance, from possible poetic flourishes.<br /><br />Then ask yourself: who could this be talking about, besides Jesus? <br /><br />Some suggestions have been offered -- the nation of Israel, Ezekiel. <br /><br />Do these proposed parallels match more of what is said about the Suffering Servant than Jesus, or less? How much does one have to twist the passage to make them fit? <br /><br />The same questions apply to the Sage Lao Zi speaks about. Some people think he was "really" talking about King Wen, founder of the Zhou Dynasty. Yuan Zhiming suggests he was talking about Jesus. Following New Testament example, you might say he was talking about both. <br /><br />But even if Isaiah or Lao Zi weren't consciously thinking of Jesus, and even if the portraits they drew were imperfect sketches, it might be that he fulfills truth displayed in them. Or at least, they might be useful models within Jewish and Chinese cultures for explaining who Jesus is. <br /><br />So there are three kinds of claims we might make: (1) divine prophecy; (2) "general revelation" in Nature or the human mind fulfilled in Jesus; or (3) good marketing. <br /><br />I'm inclined to see Isaiah as (1), Lao Zi as (1), or at least (2), Plato's righteous man as (2) (but some of these movies more as 3). <br /><br />The Christian interpretation also brings these great ancient texts to life, and gives them renewed meaning in the modern world. I think we can do that, without smothering non-Christians, or sucking all the vitality out of the original, by being cautious in our interpretation, recognizing the original context and meaning, and giving the ancient sages (and modern film-makers) respect for their own insights. If we love Lao Zi for his own greatness, not just as an appendage to our collective ecclesiastical egos, then we can respect both the "otherness" and the proto-Christian insight, even inspiration, of the artist. <br /><br />That was more than I planned to say, but I'm not sure it fully answers your question. There are other reasons I think Jesus is the fulfillment of Isaiah, and Ezekiel is not -- a fulfillment is, by definition, something greater than the original. <br /><br />But I'm still thinking about this, myself. Any ideas?David B Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04029133398946303654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5071813.post-45411223513722246082011-09-21T09:11:31.199-07:002011-09-21T09:11:31.199-07:00"The True Son of Heaven" is a great book..."The True Son of Heaven" is a great book that I'm currently reading.<br /><br />What sort of guideline would you give believers to keep them from reading too much into non-Christian things?<br /><br />For example, being overly optimistic myself, I sometimes read Christian-themes into non-Christian lyrics.<br /><br />Was Origen like you or me? :)Joshuahttp://redlanternresources.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com