"How Jesus Passes the Outsider Test" -- My New Book is Out!
Canadian philosopher Randal Rauser says every apologist should read it. Indian theologian Ivan Satyavrata says every Christian should read it. And as much as I enjoyed rebutting the neo-Gnostics and the New Atheists, and working with the wonderful Christian thinkers who contributed to Faith Thinking Understanding, I think my new book, How Jesus Passes the Outsider Test: the Inside Story is the most exciting and important thing I've written in a decade at least. The book's first readers seem to agree:
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"A treasure chest." Dr. Miriam Adeney, Ph.D., anthropologist, Seattle Pacific University.
"Delightful riposte . . . rhetorical wit and the cosmopolitan vision of a true world citizen!" Dr. Randal Rauser, author, Finding God in the Shack
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"Breath-taking in scope . . . careful scholarship, depth of insight and logical analysis . . . illustrative genius . . . a `must-read’for any thoughtful follower of Christ!" Dr. Ivan Satyavrata, author, God Has Not Left Himself Without Witness
"An engrossing historical tapestry laden with insights . . . Read on and be enriched!" Don Richardson, author, Peace Child and Eternity in Their Hearts
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"An engrossing historical tapestry laden with insights . . . Read on and be enriched!" Don Richardson, author, Peace Child and Eternity in Their Hearts
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What good has the Gospel done the world? Why believe in Christianity, and not some other religion? If you were born in China or Saudi Arabia, what are the odds you'd be a Christian today?
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Here are the answers to such questions. Plus four dramatic new reasons to believe in Jesus. And the amazing and true INSIDE story of the Gospel.
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And maybe, here's what to get your friends for Christmas.
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To order: Purchase from Amazon.com (soon!), or save money by buying directly. Send the following order form to us with payment to Kuai Mu Press, at Kuai Mu Press / PO BOX 403, Fall City, WA, 98024. I'll sign the book personally, and send it within two days of receipt, to whomever you like -- add $4 for gift-wrapping.
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Prices: 1-3 copies 4-9 copies
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How Jesus Passes the Outsider Test: the Inside Story $14 $10
True Son of Heaven: How Jesus Fulfills the Chinese Culture $14 $10
Jesus and the Religions of Man $12 $8
Why the Jesus Seminar can't find Jesus, and Grandma Marshall Could $12 $8
The Truth About Jesus and the 'Lost Gospels' $8 $5
The Truth Behind the New Atheism $10 $8
Faith Seeking Understanding: Essays in Memory of Paul Brand and Ralph D. Winter $14 $11
True Reason $14 $12
Sub-total:
Shipping and handling (to one address, regardless of number ordered): $4
I don't know if I'm missing it, but I don't see the price for your most recent book in the order form. I see your other books, but not this one. Did I miss it?
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like it will be very interesting. Loftus has quite a following, so I do think this will be a very important read.
That's a significant oversight! Thanks for pointing it out. Corrected, in red, above.
ReplyDeleteIn the book, True Reason, you argue against the OTF saying that it is flawed. Now you are saying that Christianity passes the OTF. Are you saying that 1.) Christianity passed a flawed test, or 2.) the test is not really flawed in the first place thus Christianity passed a non-flawed test? I don't understand how you can argue against it at one point but claim your religion passes it at another point.
ReplyDeleteYou, as a Christian, claim that Jesus and Christianity pass the OTF but it would be fair to assume that most Jews would think that Judaism also passes the OTF and most Muslims think that Islam also passes the OTF. Is it really possible that all of these religions as well as other really pass the OTF or are some of these religions wrong in thinking that they, too, pass the OTF?
ReplyDeletePatrick: Have you read what I wrote in True Reason? And are you thinking carefully about the words you are using yourself?
ReplyDeleteIs "flawed" a synonym for "useless?" For "hopeless?" For "beyond any possible correction?"
It is possible for an argument to be flawed, yet still useful, correctable, and in fact very valuable, since in fact those are not antonyms. Just as, if your marriage is flawed, that doesn't mean you have to get a divorce. You might patch things up, and get on capitally.
In the same way, I am saying the OTF, as explained by John Loftus, is full of holes. But even in the book, I also explain that I think having corrected it, it can be highly useful, for reasons Aristotle put his finger upon.
And why are you making all these assumptions? Read the book, and explain where my errors are, if you like. In fact, as I point out, no other faith or anti-faith (one of Loftus' errors is to exclude the latter from analysis) passes the OTF in any of the four ways I describe, as well as Christianity does. Again, if I'm wrong, prove it. You won't, and neither will anyone else, because the facts are as I state them.
ReplyDeleteYou still haven't really answered one of my questions. That is, it isn't unreasonable to assume that if presented with the OTF members of other religions such as Islam, Judaism and Hinduism will also claim that their religion passes it also. Obviously they can't all pass it; at most only one can do it. How can we determine who is telling the truth, if anyone is, and who is not being honest with themselves regarding the OTF?
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly why my corrections to John's version of the OTF are important. The tests by which I evaluate worldviews are far more objective than John's subjective thought experiment. (Since Comparative Religion and Christian History are my fields, so I know the facts better than he does.) Of course if anyone thinks my arguments are wrong, or some other faith passes the test, or tests, better, they are free to make that case. But let's not gratuitously assume that such a case can be made until we see it done.
ReplyDeleteDo you think people from those other religions will not be able to come up with sufficient reasons why their religion should pass the OTF? Why not?
ReplyDeleteWhy all the hypothetical questions? If they can, or Secular Humanists can, let them. But no, as I show in this book, none of them passes these four tests as well as Christianity.
ReplyDeleteYou already admitted that you altered the tests and you admitted that now Christianity passes it.
ReplyDeleteSo Muslims can alter the test so Islam passes it and Jews and Hindus can alter the test so their respective religions also pass the test. How convenient.
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ReplyDeleteNo, Patrick. I invented the OTF, five years before Johnnie-Come-Lately. (Well, G. K. Chesterton invented it, decades before that.) Loftus then altered it, and I corrected his alterations for obvious, in some cases generally-acknowledged flaws, based in other cases on my superior knowledge of world religions.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be trying to trap me somehow. But why don't you read the book, and learn something new about Christianity, and about the world, instead? I guarantee you will.
You invented the OTF? That's new. No one has credited either you or Chesterton with inventing it before now.
ReplyDeleteI'm not trying to trap you but you can see how suspect it is when someone of religion X invents a method for determining what religion is true and then only his religion passes it. If a Muslim were to claim that, without hearing about you or John, he invented the OTF and only Islam passed it I highly doubt you would either suddenly abandon Christianity or at least accept that his version of the OTF is true.
I, as someone who was a Christian for over 40 years, have pretty much heard or read much about various forms, dialects and denominations of Christianity. However, if you want to send me a copy of your book I'd be glad to read it.
How do you know who has credited what? You obviously haven't read The Everlasting Man, in which Chesterton clearly anticipates the OTF -- as Loftus himself admits. And you just as clearly haven't read Jesus and the Religions of Man, in which I also anticipate this argument on page 110. And my claim was about who MADE the argument, not who is CREDITED with making it -- do you grasp the distinction?
ReplyDeleteIt is no more "suspect" when I improve the OTF, and say Christianity passes it, than when the host of "Debunking Christianity" "invents" the OTF, and says, lo and behold, the religion it is is his bread-and-butter to oppose, fails to pass. The difference is, I like the guy, but I'm better-informed on this issue, and more of a straight-shooter, than John is.
No, I'm not going to send you a free copy. Nice try, though. I buy books by atheists in large numbers. I do give my own books away, occasionally, but only when I sense there is a genuinely open spirit, need, obligation, or opportunity of some sort. Obviously, I would go broke if I gave all my books away.
Interesting comment. Here you say:
ReplyDeleteI do give my own books away, occasionally, but only when I sense there is a genuinely open spirit, need, obligation, or opportunity of some sort. Obviously, I would go broke if I gave all my books away.
But on John's blog you say
But I'll send you a free copy if you send me your address: I'll probably be sending gratis copies to everyone I mention at length, since I don't need this to make a living now, anymore.
Don't be dense.
ReplyDelete