Is Scandinavia a Secular Paradise?

(From How Jesus Passes the Outsider Test, David Marshall)

As noted above, the secularist community has, in recent years, often pointed to such countries as Denmark, Norway, and Sweden to demonstrate the superiority of Secular Humanism over Christianity.  The work of sociologist Phil Zuckerman has been especially important in making this argument popular and seem credible.  While more cautious than some of his disciples, Zuckerman does indeed write with enthusiasm and persuasiveness about happy, “peaceful, and relatively godless Denmark” and Sweden:

“Quaint towns, inviting cities, beautiful forests, lonely beaches, healthy democracies, among the lowest violent crime rates in the world, the lowest levels of corruption in the world, excellent educational systems, innovative architecture, strong economies, well-supported arts, successful entrepreneurship, clean hospitals, delicious beer, free health care, maverick filmmaking, egalitarian social policies, sleek design, comfortable bike paths – and not much faith in God.”[1]

In Defense of "Christian" Civilization

Recently, I responded to Andy Rhodes, a former Christian with a lot of tough questions about Christian thought and the Christian record.  In that post, I offered some ideas about the Problem of Pain.  Andy responded with a couple dozen or so posts, which I don't have time right now to fully answer (or even read, because that will start me answering).  Hopefully over the next few weeks I'll take the time to sift through and respond to those posts more completely, because we do welcome serious challenges. 

But I would like to answer some of Andy's points on the relationship between Christianity and the western record.   This begins by delving into politics, on which of course Christians have different opinions: as a conservative, I'll freely share my own.  Then we get more specifically into the Christian record in reform.   

What Does Secular Humanism Contribute?

During our debate two weeks ago, and afterwards, Phil Zuckerman generously admitted several times that Christianity had done the world a great deal of good.  He also challenged me to admit what good I might think Secular Humanism has done. 

Paul Kurtz, author, "What
"is Secular Humanism?"

I alluded to this a few times in the debate, but did not answer it in detail.  I emphasized that Secular Humanism is not the worst of all possible worldviews, which may have sounded to Phil like "damning with faint praise." 

Phil was mistaken in accusing me of "defensiveness" in "always choosing the worst example" of non-Christian traditions, however.  As those who have read them know, my books revel in the truth and beauty to be found in Chinese and other traditions, from an ancient and orthodox Christian perspective I call "fulfillment theology."  

Indeed, if I wanted to focus on the worst, I would never have asked Phil to share the stage with me!

But Christians have to be honest, too.   This can thus be the trickiest question from a Muslim.  "We admit that Jesus was a true prophet of God, the 'Messiah' and 'Breath of God' as the Qur'an says.  Why can't you be generous even to admit that Mohammed was a true prophet?"  Well, because I don't believe his message was true, and I don't think he was a very good man. 

So there has to be balance, and honesty. 

Final Arguments (Marshall-Zuckerman VI)

(Note: I haven't posted the audience Q and A portion of the debate yet, though that comes before final statements.  I may post that later, but I'd like to post this first, and then continue with my analysis -- including of the many claims Dr. Zuckerman made in his closing statement that I was not able to get to here, and promised to respond to later.  I have now posted the response to Zuckerman's final flurry of comments that I promise below.- DM)

David Timms asks questions (Marshall-Zuckerman IV)

David Timms: News organizations remind us every day that our society seems to find new depths of dishonesty, violence, greed, sexual depravity.  How does your position offer hope for the future?